16 | Stigmas and Open Wounds, “Blessings and Curses”

David Kalsow 0:00

Today's episode is sponsored by synthesized pet photography, capturing beautiful memories with your furry family members. To learn more visit synth photography.com. That's a s y n th photography.com. On to the show.

David Kalsow 0:20

I'm David Kalsow. And you're listening to APC Presents Bri showcase independent podcasters from Northeast Wisconsin. And today we're listening to the podcast stigmas and open wounds from our very own Traci Wulterkens. This is her very first episode as a host co host, Tracy lays out her story of living with bipolar disorder. With a little help from her husband, Eric, I'm pleased to present blessings and curses from stigmas and open wounds.

Traci Wulterkens 1:15

Hey, everyone, this is our first episode of stigmas and open wounds. I am Traci Wulterkens. And I am Eric Wulterkens. And this episode is going to be about blessings and the curses of the mental illnesses. And now, let me get this straight. being bipolar, it really does suck most of the time. But waking up and not knowing what kind of a day it's going to be. It's really never fun. But I do really say that everyone should experience this for at least one day, if not more. And why do you say that? So So okay, so I know this does sound really weird, okay. But it's really for an empathy kind of thing. So I think I have learned a lot. Since I've been bipolar, I can actually understand people better. And I think there's a lot of people who cannot understand me. And now I think that you Eric, being my husband, you can understand me fairly well, you understand me better than most people understand me. But you still can't understand me as well as I would like you to understand me

Eric Wulterkens 2:42

or somebody that is going through the same exact experience.

Traci Wulterkens 2:46

Exactly, exactly. But I think that some people just say, Oh, you're having a bad day. Does that make sense to you?

Eric Wulterkens 2:56

Yeah. I'm curious. Can you talk a little bit about like, what do you think the difference between a person that is just having a bad day, and somebody that is actually suffering from a medical condition? Well, okay,

Traci Wulterkens 3:11

so here's the thing. Over the years, I have finely honed in. And some of my bad days are literally just basically, I'm having a bad day. Couldn't tell you why. I just know that it's that time where, you know, my bipolar has shifted, and I'm supposed to be oppressed today. And I just got to ride this thing out until I'm either even or manic again. And, and I know that you've said, hey, you've really grown, you're wise because back in the day, you've tried to figure it out. And I do try to figure it out. Now sometimes I am like, okay, there actually is a reason. And sometimes I'm like, You know what, there's absolutely no reason for me to be this way, except for the fact that I'm bipolar. I'm depressed, whatever. And some people are like, you know, what, my, my dog died this, this this? And you know what? That's great. I give them credit for being depressed. But the thing is, is that somebody like me, somebody who has constant depression, somebody who has something else, it's a constant cycle.

Eric Wulterkens 4:33

So would you say the major distinguishing factor between just regular old depression in say, a medical condition would be that there is no reason for it? It's just there. Right?

Traci Wulterkens 4:46

Well, and the other thing I think, too, is that sometimes I think, when I do get upset about say a normal thing, I get overly Like depressed. So, whereas me and I don't want to say a normal person, I guess an average person, we might get sad about the same thing. But I might get really sad. And, and I'm learning, there's there's days that I can really control it and it's fine. But then there's days where it's just like, depending on on where I am in my, my bipolar cycle, I will get depressed, depressed. So I think that everybody needs to really take the time to try to understand that you know, what, sometimes we can't handle this, this isn't what we asked for. And, and I'm not looking for attention. This just sucks sometimes. So. And I think, what, what happens then, is that because of this, I have this sort of built in empathy. So I can understand then, even if somebody doesn't have perhaps a mental issue, if they're just going through something just really shitty, I can just be there for them. Because you know what, I just know that they need somebody. Whereas so many times somebody hasn't been there for me, because they don't understand what I'm going through. And sometimes all I need is somebody there for me. So that's just kind of why I'm saying that. Sometimes somebody just needs to go through this. And that's why I'm saying it's also a blessing. Because I have that empathy that I've kind of built up.

Eric Wulterkens 6:52

So you're saying that, because of this condition and suffering from it, and feeling the way you do in so many situations, you can understand how, maybe not even a person that is suffering from this condition, right. But just somebody that's blue, you can totally see from their perspective, where they're coming from, because you've been there so many times, basically,

Traci Wulterkens 7:19

correct. For instance, way back in the day, I would take dance classes. And, and I would had to do a recital, which I hated. I just wanted to dance. But um, but then there was a younger girl who she had some type of a mental issue. And she was so afraid to go onstage before us. And I really, really helped her to go onstage, I said, You know what, you have fun in class, just pretend you're having fun in class. And I think because of everything that I went through, I was able to help this little girl, just shut out everything that was going on in the world, and just go out there and have fun, like she usually did in class. And we came from two different worlds. I have no idea what was going on with her. But I was able to help her. And I thought, okay, in that case. Now, that's one, this is a blessing. So there's there's times that I that I do actually find this to be a blessing. But then there's so many times I know, this this week was a real rough week. And I thought, Man, I just wish I could just take this away. And that's where I wish that this was one of those sicknesses that could be healed instead of one of those that I just have to deal with the rest of my life. Because I thought, Man, why me? I understand that, that you gave it to me for a reason God, but who? Not today, not today.

Eric Wulterkens 9:03

So do you feel like, has this made you a stronger person because of I having to deal with it?

Traci Wulterkens 9:10

I really do. I do. There are days that I think it's made me a weaker person. I do. And quite honestly, I think maybe it's made you a stronger person because you've had to deal with me. For any listeners who maybe haven't listened to the previous episode where I explained to Eric is my husband. So he gets the deal with me on my really horrendously bad days. So I do think it's made me a stronger person. But man, there are some days where I think I'm a really weak person when I break down but nobody's a weak person when they break down. So that's not what I'm saying. I think anybody who has this anybody who cries is not a weak person. I just feel like at some days,

Eric Wulterkens 9:59

so too Talk about some of the things that so let's say we have a listener out there right now that is suffering from this. Yeah. So you've been suffering from this for a really long time. What would you tell somebody to somebody that's new to this? Like, how do you cope with that? And I can attest to this very personally, because we've been married now for 11 years, we've been together for, what, 15 years. So I've seen you progress over the years. And maybe I've just gotten used to the quirks of your depression or bipolar or whatever your whatever it technical term we want to call it is. But to me, you've gotten better over the years with dealing with it. And I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about what has made you better at it, like what did you learn? From when I first met you that it's made you better at dealing with this? Or have I just gotten better at dealing with the worst of it? What do you think?

Traci Wulterkens: 10:58">10:58

I think, to be quite honest, I think I've grown as a person partially. I'm now 38. So I think part of it is that I'm not as young. So I think that you and I have even talked within the last couple of weeks about how, how much we've changed personally, within the last couple of years. So I think that I've just done a lot of self development. So then I've really realized like, Okay, this is where I'm at. So that's part of it. Part of it is realizing the right medication. For a while I was on medication that I would have to keep changing for every two years, like my body literally rejected. After two years, my body was just like, You know what, I'm just not gonna like this medication anymore. And it's just gonna stop working. And I just had to keep changing medication. So that was kind of a bummer.

Eric Wulterkens: 12:07">12:07

Can you talk a little bit about like, how long did it take them to find the right medication for you? And the reason why I asked this question is because if there is somebody out there listening, who just kind of feels like, well, I'm on my third Batcave, and these medications don't seem to be working. Oh, no. And how long? Would you tell them like, hey, just keep trying and just keep trying? Keep trying, man. I mean, it'd take you two years, did it take you 10 years before they found that medication? That was the right medication I

Traci Wulterkens: 12:36">12:36

probably took i, this is probably the like the fifth medication. But see, so here, just a really quick overview of it. So when I first met you, I was diagnosed as depressed, like I had depression. And I was diagnosed with depression in college. That was an it was, I would say, it was probably their 2001 2002. And then we were dating, when I figured out you know what, it sounds like I might actually be bipolar. And I think that was what happened to kind of get me on the track of finding some medication that might start to work. But even then, it was like, either, my body really likes all of the side effects, so that we had to keep trying different things for that. And then when we did that, I think it was only one or two times that my body said, after two years, it was and it was literally clockwork two years, no joke. Then I finally I think it was only maybe one medication. So it was probably like five medications that I went through. And I've been on the one that I'm on now. For gosh, I would say probably seven to 10 years now. And they've only had to add one medication kind of as like a booster, I guess you could say. And that's that's about it. So just be persistent. And the other thing I would say is if you go to a psychologist, psychologist is the one that you talk to psychiatrist is on, you talk to em prescribes medication, I've done both, I still go to my psychotic site Kaiya trust. But if you go to a psychologist, actually both make sure you find the right one. I went to three psychiatrist before I found the right one I liked so doctors, psychiatrist, psychologist, whatever. Just be persistent, because they're not all made equally guys. Medicine Doctors, they're not all equal.

Eric Wulterkens: 15:03">15:03

All right, so two points that you brought up in there that I want you to touch on a little worse. First of all, you talked about how early on you were diagnosed as depressed, which I think probably most of the people that will end up listening to this podcast are going to be in that wheelhouse. So talk about, did you realize that maybe there was something more there than just depression that you ended up finding out you were bipolar? Or did did some freak thing just happen that like ended up getting you diagnosed as bipolar?

Traci Wulterkens: 15:36">15:36

Well, so here's the funny thing. So I was at like a group, like kind of a cookout or whatever. And it was actually with a group of your friends, you were gone. And one of the girls boyfriends, I think, had said, she was apparently just diagnosed with bipolar. And she was talking about all the things that he had. And I was like, oh, man, that sounds like me. So then, I was like, I should probably talk to my psychiatrist about that. And I talked to him and I said, I was talking to somebody, and her boyfriend has this, this, this and this and he's was just diagnosed with bipolar sounds a whole heck of a lot like me is this maybe why my depression meds aren't working? And, and I had a really good psychiatrist at the time. And, and he was like, You know what, we could try something because it does sound very similar. And that really did start me on the right path. And things just really started to click once we figured that out. I mean, it just makes too much sense now.

Eric Wulterkens: 16:51">16:51

Okay. And the other thing I want you to touch on a little bit, as you talked about finding the right psychologist and the way right psychiatrist, yeah, you did not really allude to give people a little idea of what made you fight? What was the sign of a bad psychiatrist, bad psychologists. I mean, I'm sure that you don't go into a meeting with a psychologist and he tells you to shut up, not say anything, because he's busy playing chess or something like, right, right. So what are the traits that you found that made you feel uncomfortable about a psychiatrist or a psychologist? And what things did you see in the psychiatrist or psychologist that you ended up with? That may tells you that this is a good psychologist? Ah,

Traci Wulterkens: 17:34">17:34

well, I'll touch I mean, I should probably make an entire episode about this. But literally, my first guy that I went to, I mean, and I think the two that I didn't like, were guys, but it could it's probably just a coincidence, honestly. Because my psychiatrist is a guy, and he's good by the first guy. I went to, and I told him that I can't myself, and he's like, why? And it wasn't like, Oh, tell me why it was like a why like, kind of a degrading, like, a kind of like, made me want to go home and caught myself. And that's not a good sign of a psych psychologist to me. If it made me I would

Eric Wulterkens: 18:18">18:18

agree with you that if your psychologist makes you do an action that you should be doing? Yes, you want to do an action you should be doing. That's probably a good sign that you shouldn't I'm not a doctor, and I'm not a psychologist. So I can't say that that's not a great strategy, but it doesn't sound like a very good strategy.

Traci Wulterkens: 18:35">18:35

Yeah, he just made me feel bad about myself mostly. So then I tried another one. And he talked more than I did. And I kind of thought it should maybe be at least a 5050 kind of thing, like, so how does this make you feel type of thing and let me get some stuff off my chest. So then I thought, okay, I don't really like this one, either. You know, I think you kind of know when it feels right. So then I tried the third one. And she really let me talk and kind of gave me points to she kind of led the conversation let me talk and then she gave me some some homework. She like gave me some sheets of paper. And she's like, well, here are some stuff like and it wasn't like necessarily, like fill this stuff out. I think maybe some of it was but some of it was like here, here's some stuff to think about. And it was kind of like, just so you know, if I see you in public, I'll respond how you respond. You know, if you just want to say this is somebody that you know, like as a friend cool, if you want to say I'm your psychologist, that's cool too. However, whatever makes you feel comfortable, and she just made me feel comfortable from the get go. And I thought, This is how it should be a little give and take just very comfortable. You know when you should feel comforted by telling them your thoughts, you shouldn't sit there feeling uncomfortable. So these are things that you should feel comfortable doing with your psychologist and they should not make you feel bad because you should not feel bad about the your feelings, because you cannot control a lot of your feelings if you have mental issues. So did I cover the questions that you had? Yes, you did. It brought up. So. And I don't know, if I really finished explaining either how I kind of came to take control of being better at controlling my emotions or knowing today's a bad day and all that diet finish? Not really know that no, because I said part of it was age and all that. So yeah, I think, I think honestly, a big part is you got to give it time, unfortunately. And you have to, you have to just be aware that you know what, I've got something going on in my head. And, and you just have to know that, okay, this is what it is. And sometimes you can't control it, you just have to write it out. And the biggest thing is, I remember back in the day, you would always say, Tracy, take a nap. You need this. I don't know if you do that so much anymore. Sometimes I just give myself a nap. Because I know I need it. So yeah. So I mean, I think the big, big thing is, is just acknowledging that I have something in my head that I can't necessarily control. And then figuring out, okay, is there something that might be causing it? And if there's not writing it out?

Eric Wulterkens: 22:00">22:00

So now I'm curious, you so you talked about how you're older now? And because of that you've you're managing it better than you did? No? Do you think that that a 40 year old person manages this condition better than per se, like a 20? year old does? Or do you think it's just because you've had this condition for 15 years, and you've just learned to manage it better? Whereas maybe when we first met, this was all kind of new to you. I mean, it wasn't completely new to you, but it was new way. And you just hadn't figured out how to manage it the way you want it to be able to manage it at that time.

Traci Wulterkens: 22:39">22:39

You know, I think it's a little bit of both, because for one thing, I think I I'm starting to actually like my age. As weird as that sounds. So I actually am kind of at that point where I'm like, okay, the wisdom that I have now is, is pretty cool. So I didn't have this wisdom when I was in my 20s. When I was in my 20s, I don't think I could have dealt with it as well, even if I had had it for as long as I had had it. Like now, if that makes sense. However, if somebody in their 40s literally just got diagnosed with bipolar, they might be able to deal with it better. They say a 20 something year old,

Eric Wulterkens: 23:33">23:33

but they're not gonna deal with it, as well as the 40 year old who's had it for 15 years. Because there's a mix of, you know, having the right mindset, as you get older, you might get a more relaxed mindset or just be able to deal with things a lot better. And when you're younger, that just doesn't exist. So there's still a breakdown there. So you're right, it's both ways. Yeah.

Traci Wulterkens: 23:58">23:58

Yeah, there's, there's a lot and sometimes, sometimes it just takes time by an N I hate to tell that to somebody who, who just got it. And then it just takes a system of people. And I know, that's hard because I'm an introvert. So I kind of just crawl into a box A lot of times, but I have you and sometimes that's all it takes is one other person. Or if I find one other person that I know as bipolar, then all of a sudden, I'll be like, Oh my gosh, or, or or even depressed, whatever. I'm like, Oh my gosh, so So do you do this too. And then I'm like, Oh, cool. So we can be friends. But just so you know, I might not call you like, ever. We'll just see each other sporadically because I'm really bad at that kind of stuff. Because I never know when I'm going to have a good day and they're like, oh, cool me either. You know, I'm like, Oh, we're gonna be perfect friends. You know, and it's weird how you find that there's things in common. But when you do get together, you can talk about the weird things that you have in common when you, you know, have the bad days and, and all that that kind of thing. You just need like sometimes out one person that you can lean on that, that gets it or might not get it, but just will support you, even though.

Eric Wulterkens: 25:28">25:28

And an important thing to say is that that doesn't necessarily have to be a person, it could be all my cats could be, it could be an animal, it could be a podcast, it could be this podcast, just being the way that you kind of, you know, like, okay, somebody gets me, because I may not me myself, I, I wouldn't consider myself to have any of these medical problems whatsoever. And quite frankly, rarely I ever get depressed. But if I do understand one thing very well, it is about not people not understanding where you're coming from, because I most people I talk to, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall, because they just don't get me. So I can totally relate to that. And it's kind of nice to have an outlet of somebody, even if they pretend to understand what you're saying. It just makes you feel better. Right? So I mean, I would definitely tell you to don't don't shoot for the person that pretends to understand you, because that's not nearly as beneficial as the person that truly does understand you. But even if that's the best you can get, right, that's still a step in the right direction, where at least you feel like you're getting some sort of support to get through what you're going through.

Traci Wulterkens: 26:46">26:46

Right. Right. And I think we need to be more open about these kinds of things. And that's why I'm, I'm trying to make this podcast because for the longest time I would clam up about about having depression having bipolar, because I think it's people who I thought would, it would be okay to tell this to would either think I was saying this for attention. Or, and that that was one of the biggest ones I get. I'm like, Man, if I was doing this for attention, I would choose something way cooler, and way less annoying. But I'm just like, Man, I just, I can't believe that you would think that I that I'm just being annoying trying to tell you this, like I have a reason if I am telling you this. And now I'm just starting to open up and telling people this and I'm not saying like, Hey, I'm Tracy, I'm bipolar? I will I'll tell people if if there's a reason, you know, I might just put it into a conversation for some reason. If they say like, oh, I have this or bla bla bla, or be like, Yeah, I'm just having a real shit day, or whatever. Or I try not to make it like a piece of me. I try not to be like bipolar, Tracy. I try to like put it in the background. But I also do, do not hide it anymore. Because you would be surprised at how many people that are out there who are depressed bipolar, or something of the sort and, man they're just hiding it too and waiting for somebody to to bring it up. And they're like, oh, man, me, Tim.

David Kalsow: 28:36">28:36

Welcome to the Podcast Fast Class. This is check in number four. How would your first episode go? Did you get any feedback from listeners? Did you share it with me? If you didn't, you should, because I'd love to listen. Now this week, you've got a prep week as you prepare your second episode. And as the children's rhyme goes, second is the best. So get to it. Any questions, go to Appleton Podcast Co-op or help with your show, link in the notes back to the show that you're currently listening.

Eric Wulterkens: 29:12">29:12

And it's weird to some of the people that you see that are suffering from these illnesses, they're probably not going to be the person that that you would expect it to be. Yeah, you know, a lot of a lot of these people are public facing people that get up on a stage and sing in front of millions of people. I mean, a great example of this is is Robin Williams Robin Williams was a severely depressed man. But how? How was Robin Williams depressed his whole job was to make people laugh. And he was hilarious.

Traci Wulterkens: 29:46">29:46

Because you know what we have to put on a face when we go out in public. Nobody really wants to know how we're doing. So we always say I'm fine. Yeah, that's just it. That's just our go to sell.

Eric Wulterkens: 30:03">30:03

But so I feel like we kind of digressed from the main question that started in this episode. So sorry. So when you talked about it, at the beginning of the episode, it was both the goods and the bads of having such a passion. So you talked, one of the goods was it makes you more open to this, you can support people that are going through it. Do you really have any other goods be beyond that? Or is that the core?

Traci Wulterkens: 30:30">30:30

I mean, really, that's, that's, that's the main good. I'm sure there's something else that I can think. But uh, well, I mean, honestly, there is one other good, there are some manic days. And for those of you who are listening who don't know what manic is, that's one, you're really, really like, the really high high days. And there's, there's varying degrees of this. But like, some days, I get really hyper and, and, man, some of those days I get real productive. But that's the only other good part I can think

Eric Wulterkens: 31:11">31:11

envision it as being like a caffeine high. If you know somebody that that drinks a whole bunch of caffeine and gets like 1500 2000 times things done. In a day, that's very much what like a manic day looks like is just somebody working on ultra high speed.

Traci Wulterkens: 31:28">31:28

But that's not always good either. Because there's also some really bad versions of manic but that's, that can be my version of manic sometimes and it's great.

Eric Wulterkens: 31:39">31:39

And generally would you say, and I could be wrong on this. But isn't a manic day generally followed by a mess of crash

Traci Wulterkens: 31:47">31:47

mine in my is mine genuinely is well, not always. But this week was and it was bad. So bad. So

Eric Wulterkens: 31:59">31:59

so now let's flip this. So we talked about the goods of it. Now, let's go to the bad side, which obviously there's a lot more Bad's than the goods. And I think one of the important bads is. And I think this is one of the primary things, and this will probably come up over and over again in future episodes of this podcast. But I want you to talk about a little bit with the statements. Yeah, because unfortunately, with this, these types of conditions. First of all, and again, neither of us is a doctor. So we can't really say this with definitive certainty. And I'm sure a doctor can even because so much this is a mental condition. And there's so much that nobody knows. But these types of conditions come in so many different shapes, forms, and everybody that suffers from them, they don't all look the same. Some people might do the same exact thing as other people. But other people will act in a completely different way.

Traci Wulterkens: 33:02">33:02

Right. Like I said, there's there's different kinds of manic side exactly

Eric Wulterkens: 33:06">33:06

in a lot. Probably a lot of it has to do with not even begin dition itself. But it's a mental condition. And you develop strategies to cope with that mental condition. And different people will have different strategies for dealing with these conditions. But in the end, what happens is a person that is not suffering from these conditions, can't really understand them A, because the idea of a non depressed person coming around to the idea that somebody could be depressed all the time just doesn't make sense. Right? Yeah. Because they don't suffer from that. So they just can't understand how anybody else would suffer from that. Right. And so but talk about, just briefly, because I know we're going to go into this in much deeper detail, probably. But what are some of the stigmas you see? And how do they make you feel? And how does that make dealing with this condition so much harder than it needs to be if people didn't have the steak buzz?

Traci Wulterkens: 34:17">34:17

Well, I definitely think that there's some stigmas in terms of like you said, the whole just get over it right? Already. Somebody can't be this blue all the time. And granted, I do think that some people are kind of milking it. I mean, literally, when I got diagnosed for depression, I had to fill out a sheet. I mean, my God, anybody can get depression pills, then you could just say, Well, yeah, I've had little interest in doing this, this this and they ask you some questions, but so that that's kind of they might need to change that up a little bit. But So I do think that there there is a stigma that that like, now everybody's getting on these depression pills, because it's cool and all that. And, for instance, okay, so somebody that I know recently had to watch a video for like an in service day. And I just like, oh my gosh, I had no idea how bad things could be for you. Because it was about mental illness. And I'm like, Well, yeah, I mean, if you took the time to ask, like, I would have told you, man. So I do think that some people just kind of assume, but they don't ask, they don't care. They just have They just really want to sweep it under the rug. They just think that we're sullen people. Who are maybe a little bit out there, maybe? Maybe a little bit. I don't know, just different, maybe maybe a little bit sad all the time. And, and like I said, just looking for attention, or, or just the God's people? I don't really look, necessarily. But you know, I think I really do think that the biggest one is that we're looking for attention. And I think that's just

Eric Wulterkens: 36:30">36:30

Well, I think it's stems beyond just looking for attention. It's, I guess, maybe it all comes back to in a way to looking for attention. But if a lot of it is just just not understanding how somebody can be depressed, you got it?

Traci Wulterkens: 36:46">36:46

Yeah. Well in it, because it's just, it's well, or we're just taking it too far. Maybe it's just like, like, well, how can you be blue? A straight line, and it's just like, Okay, it's

Eric Wulterkens: 37:00">37:00

not like people are mean, in this sense. People can be mean, but they're not intentionally being mean, they just don't understand it. And they're looking at it from their perspective. And they're like, all you have to do is not be sad. That's what I do well in, they don't understand that, that there are people out there in the world that have this chemical imbalance that doesn't enable them not to be sad. And I think it's very important within our society for us to address that and in make people realize that there is this does exist out there because

Traci Wulterkens: 37:36">37:36

right, it's kind of like saying, well just don't have the flu don't have allergies because literally, this is a sickness, this is something that can't be controlled, except for if it's if it's very minor, depression can be controlled through talk. And actually it is best to do talk therapy as well as medicine because medicine doesn't cure everything because there's something that probably made you sad along with it and either way talking just helps anyway

Eric Wulterkens: 38:16">38:16

so now I'm thinking to do you have more things that you want to go through? That

Traci Wulterkens: 38:20">38:20

was actually pretty much all I wanted to talk about with this because we've really touched on the blessings of it the curse of it. Do you have anything about there

Eric Wulterkens: 38:31">38:31

is one thing one more thing I'd like you to talk about a little bit in this this is again, we'll come back around to a lot of the subjects I'll probably get in more detail in future episodes but for right now, I want you to put yourself in the shoes of your first of all, you're we're not going to define an age but you're somebody that has recently been diagnosed with depression or bipolar who What are three things you would tell them? Okay, dad that going back to when you first got it? If I would have known this, it would have made my life so much easier. What are those three things that they should know?

Traci Wulterkens: 39:10">39:10

Okay, definitely. Make sure that you this is if if you have the funds, of course because I'm going to say get yourself a psychologist to talk to but my guess is you can probably find a free psychologist out there hopefully there's a good one. But make sure you find yourself a good psychologist.

Eric Wulterkens: 39:37">39:37

And an important thing to say is if you for some reason you need psychologist is not an option. There is always the option just find somebody you can talk to us when I was in a Zack can relate to what you're going through.

Traci Wulterkens: 39:54">39:54

Yes, there's somebody there's got to be. Facebook has message boards for everything. out there right now. So there's got to be some Facebook group that you can join, I would imagine. So find a Facebook group, even I'm surprised I'm not a member of one, but Facebook and May or so. So do that. Find yourself either a very good doctor or a psychiatrist because I understand that psychiatrists are generally out of network. So depending on what you can do find that and get correct prescription. If things aren't working right with your prescription, make sure you get a prescription that works for you. And then so the third thing is just surround yourself with, with people who people or animals, I don't care, because I have two cats who are great for, for my bad days. And those work for me, because I'm an introvert. So that's all I want on a bad day. And that's all I need. That's, that's the best thing. But when you're having a bad day, just make sure that somebody knows that, that you're going through this, because you know what, inevitably you're going to have a really bad day. And you're going to need somebody to go to. And so at least one person needs to know. And I'm not talking to a furry friend, either. At least one person needs to know. Okay? That that you can call if it gets to be a very bad day. But either way, surround yourself with friends, family, whatever. I'm finding that work. So.

Eric Wulterkens: 41:45">41:45

Okay, and then let's flip it on the other side of it now. And now Now we're going to look at so let's just say somebody is listening to this podcast that I mean, the unlikely situation is that it's a person who just wants to be a better person and is trying to learn how to be better with people that are suffering from these conditions. But I think the more most common answer is going to be somebody that is living with somebody that is suffering from one of these conditions, but doesn't suffer from it themselves. What can that person do to make the person suffering from the conditions life easier?

Traci Wulterkens: 42:21">42:21

Okay, so a couple of things. One, there's a very good documentary out there I have it, it's called No kidding me, too. I would say watch that you're really going to get an inside look about people who are struggling. And then you're going to be like, Oh, that's what they're going through crap. And then, you know what, just ask them questions. And then let them know that you're there for them. And if they want you, they'll come to you. And if they don't, they'll push you away. Because sometimes, I want Eric sometimes, like, just go go to your warehouse go away. I don't want you today. I just need me time. So that's what you need to do to just start asking them question, just say, so what's it like when you have this kind of day? What's it like? And when they're ready, they'll they'll open up? And one? If they're not, they won't? But you know, what, when is the right time, Phil, talk to you?

Eric Wulterkens: 43:32">43:32

And I think I can kind of showing in on that question as well. Just being that I do. Live with somebody with these conditions that one of the things that I would tell anybody that if you're let's just say your spouse has this condition, there is going to be a day where you're going to get a phone call, and you're going to get a phone call. And then the phone call is going to be with this can conundrum of a problem. That's, I mean, to be frank, it's not really a problem. And you're gonna want to just be like, Why are you calling me with this problem? Just deal with it, it's okay. And the reason I bring this up is because we we had an incident of this this week,

Traci Wulterkens: 44:16">44:16

but I was having such a bad day, I was just it was a bad day.

Eric Wulterkens: 44:20">44:20

And so I get this phone call. And Tracy's prescription had run out or the place where she gets her prescriptions from where it was out of the drug and they said that they weren't going to get in in anytime soon. So she calls me and broken down crying about this and I'm like, wow, this is not that big of a deal. And I'm like, okay, hold on. So, so go to I go on the internet, I look up Opto or whatever, good RX or whatever. And I'm like okay, they have it at this place. Just calling Get your subscriptions switched over to that place and everything will be And I think, seven years ago had that happen, I would have gotten frustrated with you. And I would have probably snapped at you for being kind of unreasonable at that moment in time with this, where this is like, I don't need to do this, you're more than capable of figuring this out on yourself. But now I know to just walk you through, gets you going on that does solving the problem. And within 10 minutes, Tracy had calmed down, was at a much more level space, which had I yelled at you or been upset with you for calling me, it would have only perpetuated the problem and your mood would have gotten even worse. Yeah. So as frustrating as it might be, sometimes you as the person just need to understand what she's going through, or he and just know that if you support them, it's during that position, it's only going to take 1015 minutes, and they'll get through it the level out. And then everything will be fine.

Traci Wulterkens: 46:15">46:15

Right. And it could save them from doing something worse, because I was already having just such a depressed day. And that was literally the medication that had been working for years. And I was like, if I don't get this medication, Oh, no.

Eric Wulterkens: 46:36">46:36

And, and it's unfortunate, but our default is an especially in a spouse situation, our default is to be like, come on, what are you doing, like, stop, just deal with this. But unfortunately, that's one of the things that you as somebody who is supporting somebody that is in has one of these conditions that you would just have to put that default aside that says, to get snappy with it, and just ride it through support them. And, and really, that's what you should be doing. But unfortunately, us as humans, that's not the default to do you don't you get frustrated, but but just keep in mind that the best solution to this problem is just to support and get them through it. Because in 10 minutes, they will come out the other side just fine. And you're accomplishing nothing by being snappy with them, or anything like that. Because all it does is it perpetuates that problem into a bigger problem, which, okay, maybe you then turn around and do the right thing. And they'll come back down, but it just takes more time. So it's just kind of no matter how how silly you might think the problem is,

Traci Wulterkens: 47:55">47:55

it's not silly to somebody's not problem. Yes,

Eric Wulterkens: 47:59">47:59

it's not them being unreasonable to them. It feels really, really, really big. And that's because, yeah, probably when this problem arose, Tracy was already at a point where I was gonna break where she was like, and then she got this little problem. And that just kind of pushed it over your edge. And I think everybody in their life has an has a situation in their life that they can relate to where they felt that way. And just try to remember that situation in your life where you felt like everything was just crumbling down upon you. And the littlest thing tripped, you often just realize that that's what they're going through. When they call you with that issue. Yeah. I think that's really like the number one advice I could give to anybody. Yeah, in my situation, or whatever. To better cope with it. Deal with it. Yeah.

Traci Wulterkens: 48:54">48:54

And I think the thing too, is that even though we say that I've gotten so much better at dealing with everything, and I'm I'm so level and all this stuff, I still have some really rocking Lee bad days. And like this week was was really not a good week for me. And I was just like reexamining everything. And I'm like, What the heck is up with me? So I thought, I thought where have I gone? I thought I was doing really good these days. But you know, some days, some days no matter how good we think we're doing

Eric Wulterkens: 49:38">49:38

all there will always be a setback, unfortunately, because this isn't something you can beat. This isn't something you can push aside. It's just always going to be there and you just have to everybody involved test to find the right way to deal with

Traci Wulterkens: 49:54">49:54

it. Yeah, yeah. And there's no right way for anybody letters.

Eric Wulterkens: 50:00">50:00

One cookie cutter strategy to find this, you have to figure out what's the right solution to for that person to deal with, the way I handled. Traci with this medication thing might have been the absolute worst way you could do it with whoever, you know, that is suffering from this problem, right? But you have to evaluate what works and figure out the right strategy to deal with the issue. Exactly. Personally, I believe if you just support the person through whatever issue they're having, most people that's gonna work for, but there might be a person that does not want your support does not want you to be there. Just wants to be left alone while they're going through this. And your solution might be to just leave that person alone. Let them work through their issues. And, and then, yeah, let them come to you want to stare through it more or less. So you, you have to evaluate your relationship with that person and figure out what is the right course of action to take?

Traci Wulterkens: 51:05">51:05

Yeah, it's a huge learning process, guys, unfortunately. And like I said, Eric said earlier, we've been together for 15 years, married for 11, we got things worked out pretty darn well.

Eric Wulterkens: 51:19">51:19

But it's still not perfect. Now. It'll never be perfect.

Traci Wulterkens: 51:23">51:23

No, I mean things, things change with, with my bipolar with with just us. So you just got to figure out your method. And we'll talk about other stuff throughout this, this podcast series. And hopefully, we can help you. And eventually we're going to get an email for you guys. And you could shoot us some questions and all that and,

Eric Wulterkens: 51:44">51:44

and hopefully, maybe at one point in time, we'll have some people on. Yeah, I can tell their stories. And yeah, tell us the things that have worked for them to get through this and what things haven't worked for them.

Traci Wulterkens: 51:58">51:58

Right. Yeah. And I know, we're gonna have my mom on here, and she's gonna tell her account. So yeah, we're gonna have a little bit of fun on this podcast. So I'm looking forward to what's yet to come. So unless you have anything more, Eric, I

Eric Wulterkens: 52:15">52:15

know we're getting we're good. I

Traci Wulterkens: 52:17">52:17

think we can wrap this baby up for this week. So until next time, guys, that is the first episode of stigmas and open wounds. We'll see you guys next time

Eric Wulterkens: 52:29">52:29

thanks everybody.

David Kalsow: 53:28">53:28

It really is delightful to hear Tracy's openness about her mental health I for 1am Looking forward to hearing more of her story as more episodes drop. So please be sure to go follow the stigmas and open wounds podcast wherever you're listening right now and connect with Tracy on social media, especially if you're looking for some guidance with your own mental health. If you're looking to talk podcasting, though, head on over to Appleton Podcast Co-op COMM For community support and resources to start your very own podcast. If you do, you could win some free gear. But the giveaway is ending soon. So be quick. If you know anyone in Northeast Wisconsin who likes podcasts, share this show with them. And if you've made it this far, please rate and review the show on pod chaser or adopt 1000 Cats 3d printed review onto a collar for each one. Get them hopped up on catnip and release them into your neighborhood. I'm David Kalsow, your neighborly podcast nerd and thanks for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai