7 | Caleb Williams – Sports, Nerd Extraordinaire

David Kalsow 0:00

This episode is brought to you by Clear Hits Radio, Wisconsin's home for positive hits and hip hop. Listen live right now at clearhitsradio.com. Onto the show.

Caleb Williams 0:09

So I got to broadcast from the United Center with the play-by-play talent of the Chicago Bulls sitting behind me giving me pointers. That's like, this is the greatest day of my life until I got married.

David Kalsow 0:22

I'm David Kalsow. And you're listening to APC Presents where I showcase independent podcasters from Northeast Wisconsin. And today, I've got Caleb Williams on the mic, Caleb is a bonafide sports nerd. You may not have heard me, right. He's a sports comma. nerd, loves all things sports, but also loves music and pop culture. I think people like Caleb and I are drawn to the radio and podcasts because it really lets us talk about whatever we like. And a lot of the times there's a whole lot. A former radio producer and program manager, Caleb played multiple roles from Chicago all the way up to Alaska before moving down here to Wisconsin. He's currently building a positive hip hop radio station called Clear Hits Radio and throws some sports podcasts in the mix as well. He gives us a framework for self reflection, and reminds us not to take ourselves too seriously while we podcast. I'm pleased to present, Caleb Williams.

David Kalsow 1:29

I've sort of seen you in the twittersphere. It's good to actually see a face to face. interact with you.

Unknown Speaker 1:35

Yeah, it's great to be on. Like you said, I've been following you on social media. And just when you ask them super honored and excited to be on the show,

David Kalsow 1:45

so many people may not may not know you, especially in this area, if you grew up in Chicago. So paint us a quick picture of your story where you grew up. What sort of drove you here?

Unknown Speaker 1:56

Yes. So I grew up in a town called Oakland, Illinois, which is about 15 minutes south of Midway airport, just right on the border of Chicago, not downtown, but are right on the border of Chicago. So just grew up in a very diverse, diverse, creative neighborhood where I got a chance to really gain a lot of great opportunities, whether it be speech or choir, I was terrible at it. But then sports just just got a ton of opportunities. I think, really what happened was when I got into college, I really had an opportunity to really evaluate what I wanted to do in life, as most kids do. But I, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. And so I just dropped out for about four years, as like, I'm not going to spend my own money, taking classes that maybe I'll use, maybe I won't. And so I had an opportunity to go back to the high school that I went to. And yeah, I was a one on one teacher's assistant for a student with cerebral palsy. His name is Matt, you know, he looked at me one day and he's just like, you know, you really like to talk about sports, maybe you should do that. And I started thinking about that. And so I found a night school for broadcasting, went there and started attending there. Got an amazing internship at downtown Chicago with Fox Sports worked directly underneath some of like the big name Chicago sports casters, at the time, Corey McFerrin Luca Nellis Tom waddle. So I got to go to like bears games, I got to go to press conferences, I really got to understand all of the intricacies of behind the scenes. Broadcasting, which I fell in love with it was more the behind the scenes kind of like playing chess, then. Then the actual being the chess player, like just watching somebody else do it brought me way more excitement than actually doing it. For the longest time. It took a while to build even confidence to do something like this. And then after a while, I decided to finally finish my four year degree in broadcasting, which took me away from sports and brought me to music and I got into music. I got into programming. I got into all of that. And once I was done with that in Chicago, actually, I want to take take a step back after I graduated sidetrack. Yeah, because it's just a wild story man about how I got to Appleton so I was producing in college before the afternoon show hosts of the local radio station there. But I was producing for a guy who voice tracked the afternoon show. And basically my job was to pick up the phone when somebody thought that he was live and act like I was him to be like, Oh, yeah, like, absolutely. Let's record your story and then we'll put it on the air and like I would message him be like this is so and so this is what they want to say. And he recorded it and the intricacies of Voice tracking to make a show sound live is amazing. And I loved it. And so when I graduated, I knew that I wanted to be more behind the scenes, but I also knew to get in a job in Chicago and right out of college is almost impossible. And at that time, I even though I already had five years experience I knew for programming specifically, I had none. So I was like, Alright, I'm single, I'm a recent college graduate, I'll go wherever if it's a programming job. So I accepted a position in Dillingham Alaska, of a population of 800. Right on Bristol Bay. And while it was short lived, it was a great experience of just really being allowed to make mistakes and understand programming, because while we were the only radio station, so it's not like there was competition for somebody else to be like, Oh, your programming is terrible, I'm going to go somewhere else. It was the only radio station

David Kalsow 5:55

call in with a complaint, well, sorry, it's either this or this snow outside.

Unknown Speaker 6:00

And this was before really online radio, and podcasting was just picking up steam. And again, it's such a small town to the point even today, that it's still the only really media source for them. And that's a three hour small plane ride from Anchorage to get to this town and only lasted a few months. Apparently, I was not playing the music that they liked enough where there were complaints being sent in and things like that. And I had a family member gets sick, I decided to maybe take a smaller role somewhere in Chicago. And so I accepted a position to be the producer of a talk show in Chicago, just a little bit west of O'Hare was this radio station. And so for three and a half years, I was producing this talk show where not only was I doing the live broadcasting David, I was doing the post production podcast, turning turning a two hour show into a one hour show as a podcast and doing all of that fun stuff that I know, you know very well, and just scheduling guests getting to meet really cool people throughout it. But yeah, I was still kind of missing programming. So the afternoon show hosts that I was producing for in college, became the program director of a station up here. And he was looking for an assistant program director and he reached out to me. And so that's how I ended up in Appleton to develop podcasts for this radio station and to be a late night host again, I'm not the biggest on air fan so I just filled in wherever they need me to fill in at work behind the scenes learning programming. And that's how I got to Appleton

David Kalsow 7:40

and so how long have you been in Appleton?

Unknown Speaker 7:41

This is gonna be your three? Yeah, it's it's really a great great town. We moved to little shoot first, which we actually moved to our apartment three years ago today. And that was the blizzard or and it was like when it was like 14 inches of snow.

David Kalsow 8:03

He probably got blizard Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 8:04

we got no phone call. And finally we decided to call the moving company. They're like oh yeah, we're not coming today. So like we slept on the floor. We we we cut frozen pizza with a pocket knife like it was a very memorable we watched a show called The Curse of Oak Island, which I've never even heard of until that night. And we just watched it on a laptop for like, six hours. It was the most intriguing, terrible thing I've ever done. I've never watched it again. But yeah, that this three years ago today is when we moved to little shoot

David Kalsow 8:39

a movie sitting on the floor. Yeah. I don't know if I could do it, but that I had no other story. So if your family is all from the Chicagoland area is like that you can't pop over to a relative's house and but like I kind of hang out for a little bit right. Oh, no, wait. At least the heater worked.

Unknown Speaker 9:01

Yes, the heater work with the apartment that we moved in had a fireplace. So we had the fireplace going the whole time. It was a nice place. But it was a memorable move to the area.

David Kalsow 9:11

That's awesome. Yeah. So when you say we, it's you and your wife? Correct?

Unknown Speaker 9:16

Correct. For my wife and I we were married for six months when I got offered this job. And in my all wise self. We decided that she would finish the school year. She's a teacher in Chicago. And I would move to the area ahead of time. So six months into marriage, I decided to move away from my wife for six months, which was if anybody's listening engaged, never do that. Never do that.

David Kalsow 9:45

Alright, this isn't a marriage advice podcast, but we're dropping some truth prompts here. Absolutely. Well, there's a lot in that story. And I hopefully connect some more dots with a few follow up questions. So yeah, what's your favorite sport? What was one All one that you love to cover the most or help cover the most

Unknown Speaker: 10:02">10:02

Oh, basketball hands down. It was just Chicago is, you know, there's the Cubs, there's the White Sox during that time was the Black Hawks. I never really got into hockey. But you know, growing up, it was Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, the bulls. Bears are terrible. I'm actually a Broncos fan, not a Bears fan. For for football.

David Kalsow: 10:27">10:27

To have that one.

Unknown Speaker: 10:28">10:28

You know, I, I grew up with a dad who was a huge sports fan. It was one of those things where he would always teach us like whoever we root for as a kid is who we're going to root for for the rest of our lives. So like, that's what his dad taught him and all that. So the bears were terrible. And I was just like, six, seven years old. And I was like, put this john Elway guy, he's really good. And they have the same colors as the bears. So I'm gonna root for the Broncos. And so our Broncos fan and it worked out well in the 90s not so great now, but you know,

David Kalsow: 11:10">11:10

yeah, the colors won't stick out.

Unknown Speaker: 11:12">11:12

You got the same blue and orange. And I am a little embarrassed to saying this. But I was the biggest Jay Cutler fan when he was a Broncos. And I was so mad when they said that they were going to trade on I'm like, I'm gonna root for whoever he gets traded to. So then he got traded to the bears on. So I do have a Jay Cutler bears jersey, which the Packers love. He was their best quarterback. He just threw interceptions to them all the time. So yeah, yes, we

David Kalsow: 11:40">11:40

were big fan big fan. rivalry for that.

Unknown Speaker: 11:43">11:43

Yeah, I like I like to say I know my place in the rivalry. But yeah, the bulls were just dominant. And I loved just what what the bulls meant to Chicago and just seeing a dynasty is so rare. And just see six championships and in a decade is just amazing. And, yeah, and I in high school, I ended up going to the same high school that Dwayne Wade went to. So I'm doing that. And then basketball was really the biggest opportunity that I had right away just because of my knowledge of being a summer team. benchwarmer never made it to the actual, actual team. But you know, I'm

David Kalsow: 12:28">12:28

all about love.

Unknown Speaker: 12:29">12:29

Yeah, yeah. And I just had a love for coaching. When I got into broadcasting, I thought it would be a college basketball expert. I love college basketball. So I ended up just going around and asking for opportunities. While I was in broadcast school. I remember the high school that I worked at, was their basketball team was really good. Obviously, you know, Dwayne Wade went there. So it's a very good basketball school. I remember they got invited to play at the United Center. And I was just like, hey, by any chance, would you let somebody broadcast the basketball game? And they're like, would you like to broadcast all of the high school basketball games that day? So I got to broadcast from the United Center with the play by play talent of the Chicago Bulls sitting behind me giving me pointers. And I was like, This is the greatest day of my life until I got married. But you know, yeah, make sure you highlight that until I got married.

David Kalsow: 13:21">13:21

I won't cut it out. For sure.

Unknown Speaker: 13:24">13:24

Yeah, just basketball has always been a part. My dad was an inner city youth pastor for the longest time. Part of his ministry was bringing over boys just to play basketball. And so I just grew up with basketball. In my home. My whole life failure

David Kalsow: 13:38">13:38

favorite sport?

Unknown Speaker: 13:40">13:40

Absolutely. Hands down. And I still prefer college basketball over the NBA, mainly because the bowls are terrible. But um, yeah. If I could go back, I would I would love to. I'm a late bloomer, but I would have loved to broadcast soccer. Yeah, I saw that

David Kalsow: 13:56">13:56

you did the mid table podcast for for a cup for the one that Premier League was going on?

Unknown Speaker: 14:00">14:00

Yeah, yeah. And so and then COVID and all that fun stuff happened. And

David Kalsow: 14:05">14:05

have you watched Ted last? Oh,

Unknown Speaker: 14:07">14:07

I haven't yet. That's like a that's the one quarantine thing that I haven't seen yet. And I don't have Apple TV. So I guess I have every other streaming service and Yeah,

Unknown Speaker: 14:17">14:17

exactly. I

David Kalsow: 14:19">14:19

think that's the only thing worth getting Apple TV for. I gotta check it out. Add it to your list of movies. You're also a big nerd. Oh, yeah, fast. So tell me about your favorite nerdom

Unknown Speaker: 14:31">14:31

there's so many of them. I think just superhero films was growing up in that era when superhero films first came out. I'm still a firm believer of the original Spider Man and the original x men x Spider Man one and two and x men one and two are like amazing x men two might be the greatest superhero film ever. And I'm gonna hold on to that. Like, like, it is so good. And just the story I'm so excited that spider man twos dakak is gonna come back into the Marvel Cinematic Universe now like, paying homage to the greatness that movie was so same boat here. I'm

David Kalsow: 15:11">15:11

a big Marvel fan. My dad was a big Justice League fan growing up, but I jumped the boat apparently, and went to the Marvel side of everything. Oh, look, have you seen the Snider cut yet? No. hours long. I might watch it Friday, because my wife's going into a brewery game. And I wasn't invited. So it's just gonna be me. couple of slices of pizza at a buddy of mine. I think we're gonna watch the Snyder cut or King Kong Vs. Godzilla.

Unknown Speaker: 15:40">15:40

Both of them are fun again. Like, I think that's just what's great about those movies, too. And I don't know if it's calling them the nerd but like, you don't have to think too hard. Like, every time somebody is like, Oh, you should watch this Oscar nominated film. I'm like, I'm just gonna end up depressed. Like, I'll just watch a dime, a dinosaur punch a gorilla. Monkey. Like, yeah, so like, but I don't have to get super depressed or anything like that, like

David Kalsow: 16:09">16:09

an hour and a half of escapism, and it's at its finest, except for the Snyder cut. It's four hours. So get ready for that. It is better than the first first Justice League. Okay, I haven't seen the first one either. I think I'm just gonna go straight to the Snyder cut. Yeah, that's a that's that's what I think of. I'm a big Avatar The Last Airbender fan. So I just like, what's it what live action movie?

Unknown Speaker: 16:37">16:37

Yeah, right. You know, and, yeah, we'll just we'll just forget about whatever Netflix is gonna do with it, too.

David Kalsow: 16:47">16:47

I'm also looking forward to the Amazon Lord of the Rings. Yes. Big Aragorn fan. So I thought I don't butcher it.

Unknown Speaker: 16:54">16:54

I thought I was one of the biggest Lord of the Rings fans up here until I met a co worker whose wedding band is the Ring of Power. And I'm like, okay, like, I can't. I can't compete with that. Like, you know, the implications of that. As a wedding. Like, what do you get into a fight? Do you just disappear when you? But uh, yeah, absolutely. So I mean, avatar, The Last Airbender, I watched Naruto, I watched a nice, I'm catching up with Attack on Titan. And I've been told that I need to watch my hero. Yeah, I would still rather watch sports over that. But yeah, I guess I I'm the definition of a sports nerd. Like both literally. And yeah, you know, for both categories. So

David Kalsow: 17:45">17:45

yeah, you've got a ton that you like to do, podcasting, and all this stuff. And you are the owner of a radio station. Tell us a little bit about about the radio station.

Unknown Speaker: 17:56">17:56

Yes. So the radio stations called clear hits radio is a positive hits and hip hop station is Christian hip hop artists, which normally don't get airtime. My goal is to give them the foundation or airplay up here. Because I think it's music that is just, it changed my life. And so I think it could change other people's lives. So I wanted to create a station for these artists that aren't on the major record labels that I believe deserve the airtime and it's eight months old, it's hard to believe it feels so much longer, but eight months old,

David Kalsow: 18:39">18:39

and are you doing all by yourself, then

Unknown Speaker: 18:40">18:40

all by myself, I have four amazing volunteers, focusing more on social media graphic design those things. And I focus more on the music and radio aspect of it.

David Kalsow: 18:53">18:53

So you get to do that programming that you want to learn them.

Unknown Speaker: 18:56">18:56

Yeah. And I'm hoping to coach and develop some volunteer hosts one day to kind of be on air. Like that's one thing that is missing. And I think what really increased the quality of the content on the station. That way, it's not just music or sermons and things like that. I want people to connect with somebody else on the microphone. And even though it's online, and so anybody in the world can listen to it. Like we have a pretty consistent listener in Scotland. I don't know why. I don't know anybody in Scotland. But yeah, we have, like, we try to make it as local as possible. You know, like, this is a station for Green Bay for Appleton for the people who think that there's the only hip hop for them on the radio is talking about negative, depressing things. This is a station for them so that they know that there's quality hip hop that has a positive message,

David Kalsow: 19:58">19:58

especially with Putting Christian and hip hop together 10 years ago, you'd be like, what? Yep. That that's possible. Kind of a thing.

Unknown Speaker: 20:07">20:07

Yeah. I mean, there was a time in my life, David, where, quite honestly, I didn't know what I believed. Like I said, I grew up in a home, where my dad was a youth pastor, I grew up in the church my whole life. But I also grew up in a very urban environment my whole life. And so my dad was just a big fan of music. And so like, he would teach me the power of words and, and, like, to me, I'm like, this stuff is really corny, like this music is really, really bad. And I ended up for a while drifting away. I remember one time I got into a fight with my dad, and I said something to him, he looked at me, and he's just like, that's the meanest thing anybody's ever said to me. He like cried and went away. And this was me saying this to my father at the time, who was wheelchair bound, like, recently had some medical issues. So he had his leg amputated at the time. And I said this to him, and he's like, that is the meanest thing anybody said to me. And it just led to this moment of just soul searching, like, trying to figure out what I actually believe, and what I want in my life, and I decided to recommit my life as a Christian, but in my prayer, I was like, God, you got to give me good hip hop, like you got to give me like, like, you got to, like, if I'm supposed to get rid of this, like, you got to supplement it somehow. And so he introduced me to this website, it's still amazing. I love giving him a shout out. It's called revzilla.com. It's a Christian hip hop website. And at the time, this was like, 1011 years ago, I found it. And this is when Christian hip hop really started taking it to the level where it's at now. But artists didn't have the platform. So they were giving away their music for free. on this website, I filled up my MacBook Pro. Like, like, like, you need an external hard drive. And I'm like, all right. Like, I'll do it. Like I have the music, like, even to this day on iTunes, like, if you look back, I have like, 14 weeks of hip hop, like I'm still catching up to, to the music that I downloaded 1011 years ago. I'm just like, Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. And so when I got into radio, just, I was like, why isn't this being played? Like, why isn't this here for people? And ultimately, it came down to and it still is down to, you know, where's the money gonna come from? Where's the supporters gonna come from? I still haven't found an answer for that we haven't created we haven't collected a penny. There. It's

David Kalsow: 22:41">22:41

surprising to me because hip hop as a genre as a whole, not only me, and Danny the subcultures dominates the music market. Across all countries,

Unknown Speaker: 22:52">22:52

if you don't know, this little insider programming thing. It's hip hop and country music. So that's why I think in Christian music, I think that's why Zach Williams is gonna become like, the next big thing like take over Toby Mac, if you guys haven't heard him, he's like a country singer, doing Christian music. And I'm just like, this guy's gonna take over the airwaves for the next 1020 years, you can see

David Kalsow: 23:15">23:15

it. And I grew up on a very similar story to yours have grown up in the church and very strong in my faith. And there's definitely been moments of questions and things like that. And I think music has played a huge part in sort of grounding me and always bringing me back my focus. If no one has heard a Christian artists before the Christian hip hop artists, who would you recommend them starting out with?

Unknown Speaker: 23:37">23:37

Oh, man, it's so hard. I mean, it's really simple to say lecrae I mean, chances are, and most people don't know this is they probably have heard one. His name is NF let you down was a top 40 hit in 2017. His latest album clouds on iTunes was the number one album for two weeks like this. So I mean, odds are, you might have heard some artists that I mean, maybe you've heard the new Kanye West, which is you know, I'm juggling with that one. So I would, I would say I would highly recommend KB KB since he left lecrae his record label has taken it from here and he's like, elevated it up to another level. I mean, KB is amazing. On lecrae his record label I'd reach records, I would highly recommend checking out some of his newer artists. Hovey just came out with his first album. He's an amazing young artist one day, reach records First Lady, her first single just got added by to Michelle Obama's Spotify playlist. If you're more into the underground, if you'd like artists like the ruts I would highly recommend. They haven't come out with anything in a long time but alert 312 from Chicago. They are an amazing group if you're into female MCs Jackie Hill Perry is probably the greatest MC in Christian music to this day like better than the Cray I would say, Jackie Hill Perry is amazing. Some other artists, I would say.

David Kalsow: 25:13">25:13

I think I think that's a great starting point. Yeah, let's not overwhelm. You got me on a tangent there. If you if you do want to learn learn more, listen to some maybe you're like, Oh, I don't know where to start clear hits radio.com right. Yep,

Unknown Speaker: 25:29">25:29

absolutely clear his radio.com hit listen live and you can check out all these artists.

David Kalsow: 25:33">25:33

There you go. Well, I think let's take a quick break, and then we'll move on to the podcasting segment.

Caleb Williams: 25:39">25:39

Perfect.

David Kalsow: 25:42">25:42

Welcome to the Podcast Fast Class. Lesson five was recording audio, lesson six, we're talking about editing your show. So you've got your recordings, you could just put them out there as they are for all the world to hear. But that'd be like throwing a bucket of water in the ocean. The magic of the best stories happens with the scissors. We edit to create a better story because listeners don't have a million extra hours to listen and we want our guests sound their best for podcasters. This post production work happens in a digital audio workstation or DAW for short. Just starting out, you'll probably use free DAWs like Audacity, GarageBand, Reaper or even the Anchor app. The software allows you to add and mix different audio files together like your conversations, music, sound effects, and more. Whatever one you use, get to know it really well. Learn the shortcuts and get efficient. Remember, you can't edit out all the bad and expect voices to sound normal. That's why it's vital to start with a great recording. So post production, do you love it or hate it? Let us know and watch the slower, more detailed video version of this in the APC members Facebook group. Link in the notes, back to the show.

David Kalsow: 26:52">26:52

All right, Caleb, welcome back to the second segment. What's your favorite podcast to listen to?

Unknown Speaker: 26:56">26:56

I like men in blazers, it's a premier league podcasts with two guys just talking about the weekend wrap up of the matches. But I think what they do really well is mixing in American pop culture, with the games and connecting it well. And what I love about them too, especially with a pandemic is what it taught me the most is the content is always more important than the audio quality. Like so many times they couldn't get to the studio. And they would just do it via zoom or source connector, whatever program they're using. They had these little USB microphones and it was still just as compelling as when they were in the studio. I thought it was really inspiring to hear two guys just dedicated to their profession, really, really taking it to another level last year. I just love that show.

David Kalsow: 27:48">27:48

So men in blazers That one's called. Yep. Are there any other ones that you listen to?

Unknown Speaker: 27:52">27:52

Yeah, no, I listened to a faith based podcast called the holy post. It's the CO hosts are Phil vischer. You might know him as Bob the tomato on veggietales. And sky Tawny, who sky was a frequent guest at the radio station that I produced for in Chicago. So I'm a little bit biased. But I just love the content that they bring to the station and the guests that they have on as well as the content that they share. So the holy post, one that I love more local in Chicago is called the Christian optimist. It's by a pastor in Chicago, who does a really, really great job of balancing local and national news. But with a passion of teaching people how to approach things apologetically equal.

David Kalsow: 28:42">28:42

And all of those ones, the content is king. People say that all the time. But how do you get to that point? How do you narrow it down to making your content? Good?

Unknown Speaker: 28:55">28:55

Oh, it takes time. I remember. I think, sometimes just early on in some of these podcasts, specifically the Christian optimist, because this one's a little bit less than a year old is there would be some episodes where you could tell he was still trying to figure out his identity during it. But you just kind of just got to keep on pushing forward and and doing doing these and just be like, you know what, that interview was a little bit weak. This one, this topic really didn't represent what I wanted. Well, with this podcast, really, whatever you're reading, whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're listening, to be sure to listen to other podcasts if you're podcasting. So whatever you're listening to just take some notes on them. You don't have to be an exact mirror image of whoever you want to replicate, but take notes from them. Like the Christian optimists. They really want to be like Albert Mohler, there's no other Albert Mohler out there like you can't, you can't be him. So he takes it, especially because he's about 30 years younger than Albert. But you notice a difference he, he makes it more into what complements his voice, what complements the content that he is really passionate about. And so when you're coming up with content, I think it's really, really important it after each episode, like, like 10 seconds, or maybe even 10 minutes after not 10 seconds, but but when you're done, take some time for self evaluation before you even edit or send it for editing. Just be like, what did I like about this podcast? Or did I did I hit the mark where I wanted to was the message sent across into what I what I wanted to get across, or literally too many sidebars. So just take that time for self evaluation before editing. And then when you edit, or you hear the edited one, listen to it again, and then do that again. And really helped develop your own identity behind the microphone really helps your podcast with that

David Kalsow: 31:05">31:05

way. That sort of sounds like that comes from your, your programming days, your producer days back at the at the radio station? How do you approach that self reflection after each episode?

Unknown Speaker: 31:16">31:16

I mean, it's hard. Because we're always gonna be our biggest critic, David, like, there's so many times where clients are like, I don't like the sound of my voice. And I'm like, I sent you the raw audio again, like, like, this is how you recorded it. Like, like, this is just your voice. So we're always going to be our biggest critic when it comes to our shows. So I think, take it with an ounce of humility, maybe even a tad bit of fun. Just remember, you're podcasting. You know, you're talking, the best advice that I always gave people when they were nervous for interviews, or things like this is, for all we know, we're gonna be the only ones listening to it. Like we don't know, if anybody's gonna listen to it. So just have fun. And when you break it down, like, have that fun to like, you might be your only listener and you're editing it,

David Kalsow: 32:11">32:11

make it the best that you think it is, and take it from there.

Unknown Speaker: 32:14">32:14

And then you know, the people will tell you, you know, as they're listening, oh, I really liked this episode, like, this really meant a lot to me this clip, this, you know, thought that you shared really meant a lot to me, they'll let you know. I mean, it goes back to more of the programming thing. But the listeners will always tell you what they like and what they don't like. You just got to accept that. But also, you know, you got to take it, because there's some things we're going to be like, Man, that was amazing. Like, that was the worst episode I ever heard. And then other ones, you're like, Man, that was a really rough episode. They're like that was so good. And so you know, so there's the self evaluation, but peer evaluation, you really got to take that in to develop your image to your brand. And that really helps once you kind of build that your content will just come really easily.

David Kalsow: 33:03">33:03

You're kind of building an identity and a brand of another podcast that you're starting and you want to release by the end of the year. It's called the creative corner podcast. He tell us a little bit about that idea. You've got all of this experience ahead of time. How do you craft that brand before you even launch it?

Unknown Speaker: 33:21">33:21

Yes. So the creative corner comm podcast, what I really think is just that what I've discovered, since being laid off with radio, working at a school working on my own radio station is, is that there are a lot of people doing everyday nine to five things that have creativity, that they need to express and find unique ways to express it, whether it be at work or at home, when they're done. Then there's a lot of other people who were like me, where I got let go. And I was just like, what do I do now? Like, I want to do all of this. Where's my outlet? kind of thing? And thank goodness, I had a wife that was just like start your own radio station. It's like, Oh, all right. Um,

David Kalsow: 34:06">34:06

how do I do that? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 34:08">34:08

And so I mean, and that's where it goes, like, like, just talking to people about how did you find this creative outlet? How did you? How did you get over this slump? Like, everybody hits a writer's block, a podcast block of a creative block, and whatever you are doing, and how do you how do you get over that? But also like, how does it How does it help you grow professionally, and what you do for your nine to five? I mean, you might be a painter at home, but you might be a mechanic during the day. So it's just like how do you apply your creativity to your workforce. So like, I want to talk to people about how they take that creativity and expand on it. The art

David Kalsow: 34:56">34:56

thing that may not pay the bills, but fulfills Yeah. Very cool. So that's sort of what the creative corner podcast is all about. What's your game plan for launching it? Because you've got all of these, like I said, You've got all of this experience. And so you've had those times of self reflection of peer evaluation, not so many other projects. How do you bring that all to this this show?

Unknown Speaker: 35:19">35:19

Yeah. So the first thing that I recognized is that I am not great at doing podcasts on my own, I cannot talk by myself for 30 minutes, or however long it'll be. So it's just coming up with a guest list, reaching out to them making sure that we can get it done. And then I want to have a handful of episodes already done. I think that's the biggest thing that many podcasters make the mistake is they launch a podcast only have one episode done. And then they're just playing catch up. You know, I think it's important to have five episodes done, then have it scheduled out. So I want to make sure that I have enough guests scheduled out and enough interest in it too. I think it's a great concept. But I might be emailing people in there. Like, I don't want to do a podcast. So you know. So just finding the right people. And getting that scheduled is the first step of what I'm doing. And so I'm talking to people like you and talking to people I think would be great gas and to see if they're interested in it. And then I'll watch it.

David Kalsow: 36:25">36:25

Yeah, I think it's a cool idea. I think there's definitely neighboring podcasts and a similar space idea. But what I love about Wisconsin is that we don't really have those people there. That's mostly on the East Coast, West Coast, Chicago kind of is the area where all the content creators are gathered. But I think we have a ton of cool stories and a ton of awesome voices right here in the valley.

Unknown Speaker: 36:49">36:49

Absolutely, and many cool places. Like one of the things that really surprised me moving up from Chicago to Appleton was what there is to do here. the creativity of people up here is just spectacular. The food scene is amazing. The art scene is amazing. It's just, it's just a great, great place of diverse artists and creatives here, and I just want to hear their stories.

David Kalsow: 37:20">37:20

That's so cool. So talking about those content ideas, most of the podcasts are like week to week, you did a radio show, I'm assuming it was daily. How do you come up with content for something like that?

Unknown Speaker: 37:32">37:32

Well, it's not always fun. But a lot of times, it's, again, once once you know your audience, once you know what they're going for, just start building stories, a lot of things to in radio, if something works, maybe hold on to it. And it might work the next year. He's like, No joke, like, it would be like, I fill in for a show on Friday. It'd be like national, like, take your dog to Work Day, send a picture of your dog. That'd be like, oh, that falls on a Saturday, the next year. And that's when I do my normal show. Like send me a picture of your dog. Like, and it works. So keeping it short and simple. Do podcasting and live radio are completely different in that area. Where here we're talking for however long this conversations going to be. And in, Saki,

David Kalsow: 38:32">38:32

on pulling the rabbit out of the hat a little earlier there, Kayla,

Unknown Speaker: 38:35">38:35

yeah. In radio, you try to keep it between 60 and 90 seconds, keep it short and simple. They're not there for you. They're there for the music. So finding stories that are short, that are compelling. But also like, will leave them thinking or knowledgeable of an event that they can have a conversation at work. So you want to keep it like that.

David Kalsow: 38:56">38:56

Like those news articles, things like that. And just other things that people are passionate about that they have break down into sort of smaller subjects, you're saying,

Unknown Speaker: 39:05">39:05

Yeah, and that's more for, you know, music, radio, if you're doing talk radio, it's completely different. It's finding, you know, seven to 10 minutes for segments an hour. Sometimes you're talking on your own sometimes, you know, normally the hour that it opens up to you doing your opening monologue, then it's you having a guest on, then it's taking phone calls, then it's your wrap up, it's how it goes. And then you know, you find these topics. And then you know, you have this list after you build it up. You're like, Oh, this person would be really good at talking about this. And then you just send them a message and be like, hey, like, you want to talk about this. We think it'd be great. I'm like, yeah,

David Kalsow: 39:46">39:46

how do you get over when they don't say yeah, right away.

Caleb Williams: 39:50">39:50

You just got to find the next person

David Kalsow: 39:52">39:52

says, Oh, you just move on. You don't even

Caleb Williams: 39:54">39:54

Yeah, you gotta you gotta move on. You know, I would say don't give up like a lot of times. A lot of people would say no, a lot of times when they say no, it's just that they have other things going on in their life at that time, that day, if they say no, because they haven't heard of your show, or don't know how big of a reach you have, hold on to that name that they responded. So when you grow when you get bigger, reach out to them again, show them your growth and reach out again. So always reach out. I mean, I reached out to so many people when I was doing a sports podcast, like I would go digging, like I would find email addresses for like crazy successful people. I would shoot them an email, and they would reply me, I'm like, No, thank you. But I still have their email. Now I know that they reply. So but I mean, then there's some I remember, I was doing a podcast called the box one, which actually kind of have an edge to bring back where it's just talking about basketball sports, in general, and just having a person on in that field to talk about it. So this is right when I got into the Premier League, and I was watching soccer. And I was just like, oh, like, this is really, really fun. And on the show that I was producing in Chicago, we had this guy and his name was Gavin peacock. And he he is a piece of pastor now in Canada. But when I googled his bio, he was the captain of Chelsea, the soccer team before he was a pastor. And so he got off the phone. And you know, when I'm thanking Him, and I'm like, hey, by the way, I'm doing a podcast episode on the Premier League this week. Do you want to be on? Sure? I'm like, he's like, all right. Like, he's never know. Yeah, former Chelsea, you never know, I shot an email to a guy who was the long snapper of the Seattle Seahawks. When they won the Super Bowl? He said yes. So like, you just never know, like, you can find contact information. But I'm not trying to be like, Don't stalk them. Don't do anything like that. But like,

David Kalsow: 41:59">41:59

but be bold and make that ask

Unknown Speaker: 42:01">42:01

otherwise, it's always going to be no unless you ask. And then when they say yes, make sure that you are ready, and that you have questions. Like you got to sound more credible than you are. If you feel like like, oh, if you this is your very first podcast episode, don't assume it's somebody big.

David Kalsow: 42:20">42:20

So when are you really saying? I don't know. I just picked up the microphone and then got got it got it for birth my birthday. Now I've got you on the phone. They're gonna hang up. They're gonna say sorry. And if they're if they're nice, they'll say sorry. Nice. Yeah. So what kind of Is there any go to interview questions that you like to do?

Unknown Speaker: 42:43">42:43

Yeah, always make sure that it's about them. You are never the expert. When you are interviewing somebody, just remember that. So when you are asking the questions, format it in a way to make sure that they feel like, oh, like they're serious. They want to hear my thoughts and opinions on things. They respect me highly enough that they want me on their podcasts. They really want to know my thoughts about this topic. So make sure you format it about that. Remember, even though you're the host of the show, they are the guests, they are the stars during that time, make sure that you make them feel that way.

David Kalsow: 43:23">43:23

It's their it's their time to shine. Yeah, you mentioned a couple of the other questions, or a couple of your other answers about the calling and doing things that get people to engage with you. When in the radio market that's really common of like calling and texting and all these things. How does that translate to the podcasting realm?

Unknown Speaker: 43:43">43:43

It's a great question, David. I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. podcasting is still in such an infant stage of medium. We're still trying to figure things out so much. I don't know if it's live streaming or being active in social media more often. There's such a need for it. And but I don't know the exact way. So if you think you have an idea, let me know. And we'll try it out and see if it works.

David Kalsow: 44:20">44:20

A few things that have come to the top of the mind. I've know that Google Voice you can get set up a text number, have people call or text and leave a voicemail. That's what I've done for a few of my clients. There's a program called voice link, which allows people to call in and leave a one minute voicemail just through a web address. But I think you nailed it on the head and I don't think you don't don't sound this confident and like it is the social media these days. may have been a leading question and that's what I was leading for of like, there are ways to connect with people. It may not be them calling in. But it's gonna be more text based stuff, but they're gonna listen to your show, and then how are they going to communicate with you Beyond that, and I think you nailed it on the head there is that it's that social media at this point.

Unknown Speaker: 45:06">45:06

And I think David, too, I think it's the importance to have them. Also, when you're listening to other podcasts, be sure to follow them on social media to, you know, not just don't just take what works for them on their podcast, see what's working for them on social media as well. And see, if you have the ability to do that, they might have some legal rights that you don't like, for instance, like, at our station, I saw some websites like Revzilla, sharing music videos, on their social media, I'm like, yeah. And so we started sharing them and then Instagrams, like, you don't have the right to do that. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I don't do this. So. So we stopped doing that. But whatever works for, you know, see what works for them, see if you have the capability of doing it. That's why it's so important. Don't think that you're alone in this. That's why I love this podcast, so much that you're doing is like, I didn't know, so many people were invested in podcasting, up here, not just listening, but wanting to do it. And so it's just like, you got to learn from each other, you got to grow from each other. And overall, it'll just make for better content for all of our shows,

David Kalsow: 46:12">46:12

for sure, as it is a community here. And that's what we're trying to do. So I appreciate you being a part of the community. And I just have one last question for you before we let you go. So for the people that are listening, they know what a podcast is, they probably haven't known how to make a podcast for to some degree about the new listener, the person that has never thought that they could make a podcast before what advice would you give them to starting a podcast for the first time,

Unknown Speaker: 46:39">46:39

I would say, Don't be so critical of yourself of your voice of the fact that your podcasts might not sound like the podcasts that you listen to podcasting is an art form. And there are going to be people that are really pleased with your content and other people that aren't the same thing. If you're getting into freelance editing, you know, like, like you're going to get into, you're going to have happy clients and upset clients and they're going to come and go. The same thing when starting a podcast like you cannot expect to have 1000 downloads your first episode. Like, like I said, Go into it. Remember, you're podcasting. You're having fun, you have a microphone, and you're talking about something that you're passionate about. So go into it, knowing that you might be one of five, if five people downloading it and listening to it. And just just enjoy it like like you're podcasting. You're a podcaster now, like you are recording it, you are editing it, you are putting in the work to do it. So enjoy it. I think that's the biggest thing. But also know that here's another thing that's really important is that it takes a while to get onto iTunes. If you want to be on iTunes, make sure that you have like a little commercial episode. Upload that first, just so that you have iTunes ready for your first episode.

David Kalsow: 48:04">48:04

All awesome. I appreciate the words of encouragement and the technical tip on that call. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me here live. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Unknown Speaker: 48:13">48:13

No, David, this has been a blast. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to an honored that you thought of me to be on this podcast.

David Kalsow: 48:22">48:22

Well, we will see you at the coffee shop sometime soon. Hopefully,

Unknown Speaker: 48:25">48:25

I'm looking forward to it. You have a great night or day whenever you're listening.

David Kalsow: 48:31">48:31

And there you have it, everyone, Caleb Williams. He may be a Chicago native in Packer territory, but I think we'll let him stick around a little bit longer. And I must say I realized while editing this that I am the worst interview ever. I asked Caleb about his relationship with his dad after the fact. And found out that they did reconcile and they enjoyed five wonderful years together before his father passed away. If you're curious about what positive hip hop sounds like, come to the next Clear Hits concert in two weeks, September 18 2021, the Rapzilla 2020 freshmen Xay Hill is coming to the Mission Church right here in Appleton. For more info on the concert or to listen to positive hip hop right now, visit clearhitsradio.com. Head on over to Appletonpodcast.com as well for community support, resources, and the chance to win some free gear just for starting your own podcast. And if you know someone in Northeast Wisconsin who wants to start their own podcasts, share the show with them. Come on. And if you've made it this far, please rate and review the show on Podchaser or record your review on a cassette, pop it in a boombox and blast it on your neighbor's lawn like John Cusack, I'm David Kalsow, your neighborly podcast nerd, and thanks for listening.

Unknown Speaker: 49:48">49:48

I've determined that Chicago loves that. I think they love losing just so that they can remind people that they were really good in the 80s and 90s. So be like yeah, we're terrible now but 30 years ago, we were amazing.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai